Save Ladywell Pool: campaign news

Loampit Vale plans revealed

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 02:40:26 GMT

The plans for the new Leisure Centre to replace Ladywell Pool are finally being made public and prior to submitting planning application the developers ask the public what do they think of the proposal.

Here's the link to the website for the development.
http://www.loampitvale.co.uk/index.html

As you can see by the picture the new centre will be a stand alone building rather than stuck in a windowless court-yard as in the plans for this development produced by the Council last year.

Maybe the work we did to bring the attention of the public to the particular wickedness of those architects' brainwaves helped to bring this dramatic change of design.

On the other hand it could also be that it became a stand alone building so that work on the pool can start earlier and maybe have it finished just before next Council elections. But maybe we're being suspicious.

Still, the joy is limited to the provision of natural light and to the fact that the centre will also include a climbing wall.

Apart from that the plan is the same and as swimming goes the Council wants to build an 8 lanes pool of 25 metres plus a teaching pool.

As we identified last year, this new centre will be delivered together with thousands of new flats, flats for new residents that will come to live at such convenient distance from this new pool that they will use it heavily.

The picture on the home page of the development's website speaks volumes, you can see the Loampit Vale development (800 flats), the Gateway development (further 800 flats) and you can also see on top of the illustration, to the left of what will be the new bus station the new blocks to be built at Thurston Road (we don't know the details of that development but it is of about the same scale). Other large developments, like the 500 new flats in nearby Conington road, are currently being built in the area.

But it doesn't end here, when last year the Council made its needs' assessment for the new leisure centre it did not only forget to account for these developments at such close vicinity, it also forgot to consider the additional usage derived from the vicinity of the transport interchange for trains, DLR and buses.

Ladywell Pool is well used and often even overcrowded, if it has to be replaced then one would expect the Council to deliver something of value for the whole community, not a lifestyle pool for the new development that cuts out many of the current swimmers as well as many of the potential swimmers of the future because of lack of capacity.

When 4 years ago the Council started promising a grand replacement for Ladywell Pool the Mayor had even declared in writing that they would have looked for reintroducing competitive diving. In fact they only looked for a way that let them get away without having to provide it, together with everything else that's not just the absolute minimum requirements.

Ladywell Pool with its 33 m 6 lanes pool provides exactly the same total length of swimming lanes than what planned at Loampit Vale. On the plus side for the new development the teaching pool will be a bit larger than that of Ladywell Pool and will have a movable floor, on the downside the deep end of the main pool will be a mere 2 m compared to the 3.8 m of Ladywell and this reduction of deep end means that the diving platform that where removed from Ladywell Pool some years ago to never come back again will never be back again in an even more definitive way, and together with the opportunity for diving also other activities only possible in deep water will disappear from Lewisham forever, like the scuba-diving club currently training at Ladywell.

But moving away from swimming this plan is also seriously lacking facilities for dry sports. There will be a gym and 2 fitness suits but much more could have been included, even just to replace a few community sport facilities that have been lost over the past few years and that the Council always maintained that they would have been replaced with this new leisure centre, more specifically there's no sports halls or squash court.

Anyway, what there is now is an opportunity to have your voice heard, the developers want to gather comments from the public prior to submitting the planning application, please use this opportunity to tell them that what they are planning is inadequate and they should provide what this community needs, not less.

Forest Hill Swimming Pools - a short documentary

Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:19:49 GMT

Two years ago, as Forest Hill Pools was struggling for survival, the Friends of Forest Hill Pools produced this short documentary, a well crafted and very interesting document on local history as well as history of swimming pools in London.

Directed by James E. Melloy and presented by Steve Grindlay it documents the oldest working swimming pool in London.

The pools closed shortly after this documentary was made and as we upload it on the net we are at the eve of the Mayor of Lewiswham approving of its demolition and replacement with a modern one on the same site.

Private Eye exposes bogus consultation

Mon, 06 Aug 2007 01:36:20 GMT

Run to your local newsagent and get yourself a copy of Private Eye!

Once again the Rotten Boroughs column features a story about Ladywell Pool, this time it's the bogus consultation and the incredible conflict of interest of the consultant hired by Lewisham Council to deliver it.

You read it here first, now read it on Private Eye.

Bogus Consultation (non) results in front of the Mayor

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 13:25:49 GMT

The Bogus Consultation that Lewisham Council has so kindly performed for the amusement of all the lovers of local politicians' knee-jerk reactions and gimmicks has now finished and a report will go to Mayor and Cabinet next week Wednesday.

As this consultation was completely fake the report of the consultants cannot draw any conclusion, nevertheless officers ask the Mayor to note its (non) results and go ahead with building a replacement for Ladywell at Loampit Vale that is mostly in the interests of the developers of the residential blocks around Lewisham Station and that, unless substantially improved, will be a serious damage to access to sport and active recreation for the local community and the users of Ladywell Pool.

Here's an extract from the document summary for the Mayor to gracefully note:

The main focus for the consultation was the telephone survey which comprised a random sample of 605 residents living within a 2 km radius of the sites. This radius is the generally accepted catchment area for a leisure centre in a heavily populated conurbation. This part of the public consultation constitutes the primary element within the programme given that it was conducted within a statistically robust random sample of local residents. The other five elements of the consultation were all included to ensure that any issues connected with this decision process could be bought to the attention of the Council...
...opinions are very balanced and there is no clear winner...
...of the respondents, two thirds (66%) never use Ladywell and only 9% use it weekly or more often.

In fact, as the 605 respondents were randomly selected within a 2 km radius from either Loampit Vale and Ladywell and at 1.6 km north of Loampit Vale there is Wavelengths pool, by asking people living in Deptford if Ladywell Pool should either close and move neared to them or be demolished and rebuilt on site is anything but a way to understand what the local community thinks should be done.

The fact that the refurbishement of Ladywell was not included as an option on the basis of an advice that is just an hypocritical string of throw away comments makes this consultation a mere insult to the intelligence of the public and an expensive red herring - £20k of public money to hide the serious shortcomings of the proposed replacement for Ladywell and the complacency of this administration that is unable to move officers to produce a result that is in the interest of the local community.

Link to the Mayor and Cabinet report with the summary of the result.
Link to the appendix to the report (the consultantants' full report)

Consultant pulls rabbit out of hat - and it's a turkey

Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:07:17 GMT

"The two main options were set out in the report to Mayor & Cabinet at their meeting on the 16th May. That is redevelopment of Ladywell to provide a new facility or Loampit Vale . However all the consultation surveys allowed other comments to be made and where these have included a preference for refurbishment, they will be included in the results. Our consultation specialists advise that the number of interviewees who expressed the preference for refurbishment would not have increased if a specific option had been included."

This is an extract (the bolding of part of the text is ours) from the letter that Mr John Wolfenden, the consultant in charge of the consultation on the Ladywell/Loampit option wrote to those that answered to the consultation asking for a third option, namely refurbish Ladywell Pool.

Mr John Wolfenden is an ubiquitous service provider for Lewisham Council, in fact a few months ago, at the last consultation on the pool issue he was introduced to the public as the project manager for the new pool at Loampit Vale.

As hopeful project manager Mr Wolfenden was of course the last person in the world to be put in charge of a consultation that could potentially make a dent in his personal interests. In fact the "demolish Ladywell and rebuild it on site" option proposed by the consultation as the only possible alternative to the pool at Loampit Vale has a substantial degree of volatility both in its funding as well as in its timing.
It is of course the rufurbish Ladywell option that would be a serious setback for Mr Wolfenden.

Again Lewisham Council has shown lack of judgement and has asked him to make the Council's case against the refurbishment.

Click here to read a full specimen letter from Mr Wolfenden with our comments on his considerations.

The third option

Tue, 26 Jun 2007 01:46:27 GMT

As the request for a third option grows we have produced this questionnaire that gives you everything that the questionnaire of the Council gives you plus the option that the Council so much didn't want to give you.

Download the questionnaire, fill it up and deliver it to either Lewisham Council or their independent consultants.

Click here to download the questionnaire (pdf 1.4Mb).

Once filled send your questionnaire to:
Accent
Chiswick Gate
598-608 Chiswick High Road
London
W4 5BR

Hurry up, completed forms must be sent by 4th July 2007!

Can't believe it won't have windows!

Tue, 26 Jun 2007 01:46:18 GMT

As we inform the local community of the poor nature of the proposed Loampit Vale Leisure Centre some struggle to believe that the new pool will not have windows.

Well, this is for you, click here to see the architectural drawings of the centre.
Those that Lewisham Council forgets to show when consulting with the residents about about the proposal.

Public Meeting on Monday 25th June

Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:13:52 GMT

PUBLIC MEETING

Monday 25th June, 7 to 9 pm

Ladywell Leisure Centre

Please attend this meeting to join in with your community and fight back against the distasteful tactics of the Town Hall Elíte.

ps: Please contact us to have a window poster delivered to you. Alternatively you can download the file here and print your own poster.

How to anwser the unanswerable consultation

Sun, 17 Jun 2007 16:40:22 GMT

Click here

and you will automatically create an email addressed to the people running the consultation on Ladywell Pool and send one copy to us, the Mayor and the local press.
By sending this email you will be able to express your opinion without having to fill this purposely deceitful online questionnaire that Lewisham Council would like you to fill.

Here's a full Q&A page to give you an overview of the issue.

This is the crucial question that you should carefully avoid to answer:

Q26.    With the above advantages and disadvantages of both locations in mind which of the two options are you most in favour of?

   - Replace the existing Ladywell Leisure Centre with a new facility on the same site

   - Build a new leisure centre at Loampit Vale

   - No opinion/Don't know

Please note that the questionnaire is designed is such a way that if you don't answer to it you cannot proceed with the rest of the questionnaire.

Can this be answered? No, not at least if you disagree with both option one and two and contrary to option three you do have an opinion to put forward to the Council, our opinion for example is quite clear:

Either refurbish Ladywell Pool or go back to the drawing board!!!

Please handle this questionnaire carefully, it is much safer to express your opinion through the email facility provided above.
Answering to the questionnaire would amount to endorse the appalling plan for the new pool at Loampit Vale that is extremely poor and it is not in the interest of this community.
Read here the full Q&A before proceeding. If you have further doubt, please contact us.

_____

Last Friday 15th June we contacted the people running this awful consultation (link) on behalf of Lewisham Council and asked them to change the wording of this question to allow other opinions to be expressed.
At fist they agreed but told us that they needed to have the Council's agreement.
After 5 minutes the person we spoke with called us back and told us "I didn't call the Council because... we are an independent consultant! I went to read the Mayor and Cabinet papers and can confirm that there are only those two choices."

Cold callers mark the start of bogus consultation

Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:27:27 GMT

The bogus consultation on the fake Ladywell/Loampit Vale option has officially started.

A Ladywell Pool swimmer and resident of Honor Oak sent us this email:

While at work today I had a telephone call from Lewisham Council about the proposed refurbishment of Ladywell Leisure Centre as opposed to the new development at Loampit Vale. The first question I was asked was whether I lived within 30 minutes walking distance. When I said no, I was told that I did not fit the criteria for the consultation. I live by Honor Oak Park Station so don't actually know exactly how long it would take me to walk to Ladywell Leisure Centre and also have spinal arthritis so walk slowly in any case. None of this was relevant to the canvasser, merely the fact I live more than 30 minutes walk from Ladywell LC precluded me from being involved in any consultation.

I do not understand this question being the first on the list, nor being relevant to the subject in the first place. I am a Lewisham Resident who uses the pool at least twice a week. Surely this means I am exactly the type of person who should be consulted on this issue? It is the type of facility to be redeveloped or built which is important.

I was also told that the redevelopment of Ladywell Leisure Centre would involve the facility being closed for at least two years. This was the opening line in introducing what the canvassing call would be about. Surely stating it would be closed for two years, thus implying there would be no facility at all for this time should those questioned prefer to keep Ladywell, is a very leading way to introduce a canvas poll to a cold call recipient!

After Mayor Bullock ruled out refurbishing Ladywell Pool saying that...he doesn't like the look of the building, Lewisham Council has started consulting asking residents if they want their pool demolished and rebuilt or moved somewhere else.

Remember, it is your right to say that you rather keep Ladywell and having it refurbished. The Council is obliged to register your preference, whether they want it or not.

Don't let the cold callers of the Council bully you in saying one or the other preference.

The Council's plan for the new pool is not good enough and it is not in the interests of the residents to accept it.

The main beneficiaries of the Council's proposal will be the developers building the thousands of new flats around the Town Centre.
A pool of that dimension in that place will effectively be a lifestyle pool for the residents of the new blocks - the developers will be able to sell the new flats at a premium because of a new pool in the development - the current residents and users of Ladywell Pool will loose much of the current access to their community pool.

We have desperately tried to convince Lewisham Council to improve their offer, we have not rejected a new pool to replace Ladywell on any principle but these proposal is in its substance an insult to us all.

Read this paper that we submitted some weeks ago to the Overview and Scrutiny Business Panel of Lewisham Council to know the details of our objection, the broken promises of the Council and their dodgy tactics.

Sadly, the Council only reacted with increased arrogance and has now devised this bogus consultation to attack Ladywell Pool denying altogether the option of refurbishing and retaining Ladywel Pool.

The building is basically sound - well built and has many attractive design features. The architecture of the '60s is currently underrated just as Art Deco was a few years back but later generations will thank us for preserving a fine example of a nearly vanished era. It's handy for the hospital and provides a valuable hydrotherapy resource which just would not work on any more distant site.

In its time Ladywell Baths was a flagship building for the borough attracting visitors (to swim and use the Turkish Bath) from all over South London - and with a little bit of attention to visitor's needs it could do so again.

It is not very energy efficient - but that could be improved, and the energy cost of pulling it down and rebuilding would easily outweigh a few energy losses even over hundreds of years.

The Terms of Reference of the Mayor's advice seems to be severely flawed. They are based on many false premises for example that "there is no separation between the two pools so differential water temperatures cannot be easily achieved" which is patently untrue. And that "the building does not meet current Disability Discrimination Act requirements" which is a clever bit of spin, since it is only technically deficient in a few minor matters like the lack of braille code on the lift's buttons which could be fixed by a home handyman.

Many of the defects that deter more people from making use of the excellent facilities are cultural rather than a matter of money. It's like the public space in a big block of council flats - no one 'owns it' and takes a bit of care. The staff are pretty good but they have been on short term contracts and are under constant pressure from their employer to save money.

All this could be changed with a new more imaginative management contract which encouraged modest investment in cosmetic improvements and rewarded increased visitor numbers. We also propose to establish an active group of friends of Ladywell baths for this community to take ownership of its assets.

The People's Baths could become more of an active and real community centre to improve not just the fitness of local people but their mental wellbeing too.

A bog standard pool in the basement of a block of flats just doesn't do.